Marked by two decades of conflicts between politics and magistracy, the question of justice continues to be at the center of the Italian public debate. Populism and justicialism promoted a dismissive attitude towards rules and politics, which erodes the foundations of legality. In this conversation with Mauro Barberis, Luigi Ferraioli, eminent theorist of criminal and social guarantism, exposes some proposals for original reforms of the legal and political system, intended to cause controversy: from the organization of justice to the reform of the parties, from the relationship between economics and policy to the basic income, from common goods to e-democracy.